The Romney Factor

The suggestions for how to engage our Mormon brothers and sisters are very similar to the way that I believe followers of Jesus should engage Muslims, Jewish people, indeed, any adherents to other religious traditions.

While there certainly may be times when arguments and debates are productive, I think they are counter-productive more often than not. Love, respect, and a gentle explanation of what I do believe are more in line with the teachings of Jesus (and more effective) than arguing and posturing about Mohammad, Joseph Smith, or the Talmud.

Growing up mormon and then later converting to christianity at 24, has allowed me a broad perspective from both points of view. Above all the different doctrinal differences and practices or beliefs is a pure and simple answer to right and wrongs of each group. Look deep and see whos life best reflects that of a follower of christ and you will find your answer to right and wrong.

We need to be glad that we have a politician running with high moral standards and strong family value, isnt that the back bone of christian potiltics? It could be alot worst! I was raised mormon and converted to christianity at the age of 24 and although I believe in the bible and not the book of mormon, I do believe the best way to judge a person is not by what they profess but what the do. Actions always speak louder than words and thats were I look for my answers when it comes to these kind of matters. I'm embarrassed to call my self christain when I hear about "christians" attacking peoples beliefs systems. A true deciple of christ would never do that!
More sad is the simple fact mormons know more about thier beliefs than most "christian" do, maybe thats why the offensive. Denominations bring seperstion in the christain family and now more than ever we need unity, so lets stop talking and start listening and try to live our lives as christ meant for us to live.. as one body.

Education in this area is the only way to stop the fruitless attacks and get on to real dialog. Dr. Rowe's book and work go a long way to show how to truly interact with people from a different faith. I grew up as a Mormon and remember the pamphlets I would get attacking the "Mormon" Jesus depicting him with red eyes and fangs. Years later having converted to Christianity it seems comical, but when it first came time to have a real discussion about Jesus, those memories actually hindered my willingness to be open.

thanks for all the comments, folks. this article really hit us when Bryan sent it because of how well its subject matter hits our vision for this site, but also because I personally have very close friends who are LDS, and the Evangelical response to the Mormon church, while also understanding the major theological differences, has really pained me (and my LDS friends) at times.

Just this morning, a Christian friend e-mailed me a link to a video of a pastor asking the question, "Can or should a Christian vote for a Mormon?" After the six minute video concluded, the pastor hadn't yet answered the question, but he did encourage the viewers to vote for Mitt Romney over any Democrat. I found it sad that the pastor didn't attempt to talk about religious similarities or differences--only the 2008 Presidential election. (He didn't even get into political issues, rather, he encouraged Christians to faithfully support the the Republican Party.) Would we even be having this conversation if not for Mitt? If there were a openly evangelical Christian running for the Republican spot, would we be talking about Mormonism at all?

It makes me so, so sad to hear stories about pamphlets of the "Mormon" Jesus with fangs and whatnot. Living in Salt Lake, I still see Christians trying hard, but missing the mark with this pamphlets or DVDs. Most of the material ends up in the trash, only after tainting the image of Christianity and widening the divide.

I first started thinking about issues of Mormon vs. Christianity (a phrase I don't care for) while sitting in the Mormon Tabernacle watching Ravi Zacharias having an open dialog with Mormon leaders and scholars. Later I witnessed a pastor and an LDS missionary argue and debate and argue some more. They weren't even talking about the same issues because they had yet to find any common ground. But it was when I picked up and read Dr. Rowe's book, I LOVE MORMONS (immediately after reading BLUE LIKE JAZZ) that I realized that we need a different approach, and not just with Mormons. Like other comments here, Rowe's book shows us how to talk with any religion different than our own (and Miller shows us a better attitude). Also mentioned in other comments, we need to put our actions were our beliefs are or we will go nowhere.

Honestly, I'm not a fan of Mitt, or any of the Republicans for that matter, but I want this election to be an opportunity for discussion and understanding, not just more political cow pie eating contests.

Thank you for your voice of reason.

However, some who have already made comments like "growing up Mormon and then converting to Christianity," are not being helpful, because they have already defined Latter-day Saints as "not Christians."

More helpful would be something like "having grown up Mormon and then converted to evangelical Christianity . . . "

We cannot have reasonable and friendly discourse until we allow each other to define ourselves. I define myself as a Latter-day Saint, a follower of Christ, and a Christian. When someone tells me I am not a Christian, he has ended the discussion with an insult.

Those who sincerely want to engage this issue in a constructive manner might benefit from investigating the friendly cooperation of a self-described "Latter-day Saint" and a self-described "creedal Christian" at article6blog.com.

Tracy Hall Jr
hthalljr'gmail'com

Thanks so much for running this article. I am a Christian who lives in SLC. When Mitt Romney started his campaign, one of my first thoughts was "Oh no, now the whole country is going to make fun of Mormons, and it's going to be the Christians who start throwing punches first."

Personally, I think it comes out of a slight indignation on the part of Evangelical Christians throughout the country that people who have grown up without a religious background really don't know or care about the differences between Mormons and Christians. So if we bash Mormons, the country will figure out that "Christians are right and Mormons are wrong." Has that ever really worked?

The relationship between Mormons and Christians has long been strained, really since the creation of the Mormon church, and having a Mormon running for office just seems to amplify the issue that has existed for so long. But I would dare say that the Evangelicals who live outside of Utah are a little bit behind the curve.

I've only lived here for five years, but my friends who have grown up here say that this city and this state is changing, and I believe with all my heart that is the result of God's hand working in and through Mormons and Christians alike. Christians churches in SLC used to be small and tight knit, very much based on and "us against them" attitude, which is hard not to buy into when you are living in the minority.

As evidenced by Ravi Zacharias' appearence on Temple grounds, the first Evangelical speaker allowed to teach there since D.L. Moody, the times they are a changin'. Both sides of the debate are experiencing this change. In the time that I've lived in Salt Lake I've seen hundreds of people raised in the LDS culture come into a personal relationship with Christ, I seen the leaders of the LDS church court leaders of the Evangelical community in order to understand the differences between biblical Christianity and Mormonism, I've seen Christians come together to stand in front of the Temple grounds during LDS events so that there is not room enough for hate-spewing street preachers.

What is most effective in all of these areas, is genuine and honest love. If I have not love, I am but a clanging gong, right?

In some ways Tracy Hall Jr. is correct. The word, �Christian� is about semantics. Some say to be Christian is to subscribe to the Nicene Creed. Some say it�s about being a follower of Jesus. Some use Romans 8:9. Either way, the loaded word has a different meaning depending on who�s using the word and who�s defining themselves with it.

How about if I defined myself as a member as the �one and only true church.� Or what if I started calling myself a born-again-Mormon, or simply a Latter-Day Saint even if I were never baptized in the LDS Church? Would Mormons allow me to define myself in this manner? Maybe, maybe not.

The word, �Mormon� is much the same kind of loaded word within some circles. There�s the typical Mormon, and then there�s the reformed LDS and the various polygamist groups. I saw Mitt argue that some Joseph Smith followers calling themselves Mormons were not in fact Mormons because they practice polygamy. So again, it�s semantics. A friend of mine, a return LDS missionary and former BYU student, is openly gay and calls himself a worthy, practicing, Mormon. Some might say otherwise. Many Christians wouldn�t agree with his self-declaration, especially if he were identifying himself as a Christian. And do we accept that the KKK are Christian; because that is how they define themselves?

I ask these questions to make a point that Tracy is absolutely correct in identifying the problem. But rather than checking out when we hear a word used in a way we don�t agree, we need to ask, �how do YOU define ________.� This may serve the conversation well.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Tracy. If you were over at my house, sitting on our covered back patio talking about spirituality, I guess the next question might be, �How would you describe Jesus Christ?� (Because even that name is loaded, and we all seem to understand him, who his is, and what he did differently.)

Greatly appreciate your comments, Tracy, but I would like to intercede and mention that the LDS church did not identify itself as "Christian" until a few years ago (early 2001 or so). In fact, I was in Utah during that General Assembly, and an article in the Tribune or Deseret News (can't remember which) mentioned that the LDS church HAD begun to associate itself with Christianity, and how that was a dramatic switch. Previously, Mormons would not have considered themselves "Christians".

Bryan asked,

"If you were over at my house, sitting on our covered back patio talking about spirituality, I guess the next question might be, "How would you describe Jesus Christ?" (Because even that name is loaded, and we all seem to understand him, who his is, and what he did differently.)"

Bryan, even without the shelter of your patio, your thoughtful responses make me feel comfortable sharing my feelings with you.

When I think of my Savior Jesus Christ I am overwhelmed by his pure love. He knows me perfectly, with all my ugliness, yet somehow he desires my fellowship and my devotion, however flawed, as though he gave his life for me alone!

I think of his hands pierced to pay my debt, and of the great drops of blood oozing from every pore as he trembled under the burden of my sins.

I am in awe that he has power to wash me clean and wants me to become one with him, as he is one with the Father.

Surely he has born my grief, and carried my sorrows! I want with all my heart to try to please him and to keep his commandments, though I know that he will only bless me more and more as I fall deeper in debt to him.

I know, by the power of the Holy Spirit, that Jesus Christ is the creator of the Universe. He is the only begotten Son of the Father. In perfect obedience to the Father, he wrought an infinite atonement for my sins and won the victory over death.

I look forward with great hope to the day when he shall raise me from the grave. Then I shall stand in my flesh before my advocate and hear him say,

"Father, behold the sufferings and death of him who did no sin, in whom thou wast well pleased; behold the blood of thy Son which was shed, the blood of him whom thou gavest that thyself might be glorified;

"Wherefore, Father, spare this my brother who believes on my name, that he may come unto me and have everlasting life." (Doctrine & Covenants 45:4-5)

Sincerely,

Tracy Hall Jr

Jordan Green asserts ". . . that the LDS church did not identify itself as "Christian" until a few years ago. . . Previously, Mormons would not have considered themselves 'Christians'."

Nonsense! Since 1830, the Book of Mormon has stated its purpose, on its title page, "to the convincing of Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God." Every message in the book supports that purpose.

The faithful Saints whose story is told in the Book of Mormon "who were true believers in Christ took upon them, gladly, the name of Christ, or Christians as they were called, because of their belief in Christ who should come." (Alma 46:15)

The church was organized in 1830 as "The Church of Christ," until 1838, when the Lord, by revelation, expanded its name to "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."

The first article of our Articles of Faith, published in 1842, states, "We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost."

After the martyrdom of Joseph and Hyrum Smith on June 27, 1844 the church declared that their blood "is an ambassador for the religion of Jesus Christ, that will touch the hearts of honest men among all nations."

Since 1830, without fail, Latter-day Saints have partaken every week of the emblems of the body and the blood of Christ, covenanting "to always remember Him."

The church has always declared itself to be the restoration of the same church that Jesus and his apostles established in the meridian of time. As such, we have always distanced ourselves from what we believe to be the apostate creeds of traditional Christianity. But we have always and consistently declared our devotion to the Lord Jesus Christ.

We have not changed our doctrines. Rather, anti-Mormons have, in recent years united to chant a common mantra: "Mormons are not Christians."

Any increased emphasis on our historical, consistent testimony of the divinity of Jesus Christ is in direct response to this false accusation.

I don't mean to say that Mormons disassociated themselves with Christ...I mean to say that they disassociated themselves with the term "Christian" as it pertained to the Evangelical world until very recently.

For identification reasons, members of the LDS church referred to themselves as "Mormons", and bristled at being referred to as "Christians". I can hardly blame them considering the levels of persecution the Christian church put on them in the early days. It wasn't a question of theological identification, but of cultural identity.

(Though it is important to point out MAJOR theological differences between the two faiths.)

You mentioned that the LDS church has not changed it's doctrines, but there is a very common belief outside the LDS church that some pretty dramatic theological changes were made in regards to plural marriage and finally permitting black people into the priesthood in 1979.

Please note, I'm not trying to trap you or convert you or be contentious! I think our readers would like to know how members of the church view these changes. If not doctrinal changes, then what?

I think through conversations with my friend Gabe, he would've referred to them as further revelations from God...am I wrong in that?

(Sorry about the funny marks in my last post. I guess that'll teach me to cut and past from Word.)

Thinking about what Jordan said, I remember the LDS Church making some changes prior to the 2002 Olympics. That was when members started drifting away from the term, "Mormon." The church logo changed, making the words, "Jesus Christ" larger. I also remember a bit of a stir about identifying themselves as Christians, but after a quick search of the LDS website, I can't find anything about these changes.

Tracy, thanks again for sharing. Your description of Jesus Christ reads well and is heartfelt.

It's sad that LDS members and members of other Christian churches don't have these conversations more often. There's obviously a line in the sand, because when the LDS missionaries knock on my door and find out that I'm Christian, they still want to tell me about "the true church," teach me, and convert me into a full knowledge of the gospel, suggesting that I lack some knowledge of the gospel. (It's much like Tracy's comments that suggesting a Mormon converted to Christianity says they weren't Christian before.) But don't get me wrong, I'd like to plant seeds with those LDS missionaries too, with a hope that someday they'll be watered, grow, and the LDS member may enjoy a deep relationship with Jesus Christ, making him the only center of their lives, no matter what denominational flavor they may claim.

Obviously, there are some deal-breaking differences, otherwise, there wouldn't be this desire to teach and convert (and argue). I'm sure the LDS would love to be viewed in the Christian fold, just as I'd love to have the LDS missionaries tell me, "Oh, you're Christian. That's great; us too. We're out sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ, BUT YOU ALREADY KNOW HIM. Praise God! Do you know of anyone we could talk to that doesn't know Christ?"

We may still have a long way to go, but maybe through these conversations we'll someday get there.

Jordan refers to a common perception that the church has changed its doctrines with respect to plural marriage and access to the priesthood:

I think our readers would like to now how members of the church view these changes. If not doctrinal changes, then what?

I think through conversations with my friend Gabe, he would've referred to them as further revelations from God...am I wrong in that?

God certainly authorized the plural marriages of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and he severely chastised Miriam and Aaron when they opposed the plural marriage of Moses to an Ethiopian woman. Paul, who declared the policy that a bishop must be the husband of one wife, did not censor the record of the patriarchs. On the contrary, he praised the great faith of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses.

In like manner, I believe that Paul's instructions regarding hair length and head covering was a policy suited to local or temporal circumstances and not an eternal doctrine.

In like manner, I believe that God commanded my ancestors to live in plural marriage. I admire them for the great sacrifices they made to live this commandment: I would not be here without them. But I also believe that when the government of the United States of America threatened the church with extinction, God commanded them not to enter into any more plural marriages. I also admire them for the sacrifices they made to obey this revealed change in policy.

In my mind, the question of granting the priesthood to all worthy males is not quite as clear-cut. God commanded Moses to give the priesthood only to male descendants of Levi, and Jews still observe this commandment -- without any criticism from the rest of the world. But I do not see any eternal principal involved therein -- it was just always a policy.

So I have trouble with efforts by some Latter-day Saints to justify our past policy with respect to the priesthood on doctrinal grounds. I think it was always just a policy. Joseph Smith ordained several blacks to the Priesthood. Brigham Young reversed that policy, for reasons that are not entirely clear to me.

Whatever the reasons for past policy, I firmly believe that the current policy came by revelation from the Lord. Ask any Latter-day Saint what he was doing when he heard of the Revelation on the Priesthood, and he will remember. I certainly do! It was a day of great rejoicing. Our current prophet, Gordon B. Hinckley, minces no words about the sin of racism.

Tracy Hall Jr
hthalljr'gmail'com

tracy,

thanks a ton for that explanation. One of my biggest frustrations in discussing faith with my friend Gabe was always that I had a very convoluted view of Mormon beliefs, with little to no understanding of the other side. Thanks for taking the time to discuss this with me.

Jordan

It's very strange to me that this article was posted this week.
Two days ago, a friend and work buddy of mine (and especially my roommate's) named Don died in a motorcycle accident.
He was a good man- funny and kind. He always made me want to have a better attitude at work because he was so full of love.
Now I am sort of conflicted and sad and hoping that I will see him in heaven someday.
All I know is: he was a good man here and whereever he is now, he is still a good man.
I don't know exactly what Jesus is up to in all this afterlife stuff, but I am going to trust Him with my friend Don. I hope we get to see each other again.
I definitely need to read the "I Love Mormons" book because I want some insight on this issue and it would be nice to hear it from someone who shares my beliefs.