On Homosexuality and Getting It Wrong

I agree with the last part about what you are proposing - and I think most of the body of Christ would agree with you as well. But I wish we could all not stereotype the body of Christ.

Fred Phelps and the "God hates fags" crew are some fringe anti-christian group of people who anyone can see has absolutely nothing to do with christianity. And if anyone fails to see that, the are just not facing the facts.

Ted Haggard is just like you and me, and I bristle at the picture that was used for the article. The perception, which indeed is very wrong, is that Haggard is a "hypocrite". A man who breaks a moral code he believes in is no hypocrite.

More grace is needed all around, grace for homosexuals, grace for christians, grace for everyone - that is sorely lacking among many in our day.

The photo used is actually from the documentary, "Jesus Camp". Here's the clip, and I think it speaks for itself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6rSjrBhUIA

If you wouldn't use the word hypocrite? What would you use? If I spoke routinely and passionately to a large group every week about the evils of eating carrots, and tried to get laws passed which would ban the eating of carrots, and then a carrot grower charged me with eating carrots, that would be pretty hypocritical, wouldn't it? It's certainly beyond self-loathing...

But you also make a great point, Brian, and I think we often lack grace for fellow Christians. It's important for us to never view ourselves as better than Haggard or any other person.

There's a certain satisfaction when the self-righteous fall, but that satisfaction is self-righteous, too.

I agree with Brian....the most annoying thing about being a Christian is constantly being told you are wrong...wrong, wrong, wrong about everything you do and think. If the right agrees with you, the left says you're wrong, and vice versa. Argh!

But on topic, the issue of homosexuality hits home for me...my mom left my dad for a woman when I was about 6 years old. Growing up was confusing. But she came to Christ about 5 years ago, went through the therapy that the "left" side doesn't condone, and is now a devoted Christian and wife (to a man). Our family is at least partially restored. Maybe one day we will be fully restored.

She said two things did it for her: her mother's death, which made her realize that she was going to die too one day and face God. And also the fact that the Christian churches said homosexuality was not ok. Her gay friends tried to convince her to attend the gay church. She said though that if she couldn't go to any church and be told that her lifestyle was ok, then she knew that it wasn't ok. Wow, practicing morality actually worked.

So to all those "bad" churches that focus on morality and the therapists that can "cure" homosexuality: thanks for giving me my mom back.

In Jessica's post and the subsequent comments, three words stick out at me: homosexual, hypocrite...and grace. I'll make a couple comments, then ask a few questions.

First, while some will argue against me on this, God's people have understood for multiple milennia that homosexuality is abhorrent to God. Translation: homosexuality is, according to the Bible, sin.

Second, Jesus - in no uncertain terms - condemned the religious leaders for their hypocrisy. How does "whitewashed tombs" sound? God takes hypocrisy seriously.

Finally, some questions: Is God's grace sufficient to cover the sin of homosexuality? What about hypocrisy? What about your sin - or mine? And if his grace is sufficient, how should we respond? Should we not respond to both homosexuals and hypocrites with the same grace?

The part about light and air is a good point. Sexuality for lack of better phrasing needs community, and in that, accountability. I question if so many, both in the secular world and more-so the body of Christ would be a little less "messed up" if we had these two needs met? Although the church does seem to be failing both in love and and being open about these issues. Perhaps many issues in peoples lives would have been resolved years ago if for once the body of Christ ie, the church took a stand, not about the wrongness, the bible says do not even eat with a sinning brother, ok that acknoledges the sin, now what? Once we realize we have sinned it's time to fix the problem. And whats better? Community that is open to accountability, reaching out, allowing confession, not as pope, but as family.

50% success rate is actually pretty impressive compared to rates of similar groups, such as AA for example, or support groups for prisoners trying to get back into society. I don't trust statistics like that because there are too many unknowns (definition of "success", whether people tried to cure themselves or relied on God, accuracy of the data collection technique...), but if it really is 50% of the people don't return to that lifestyle they are doing something right.

Did 50% of the crowds who heard Jesus put their faith in Him? "'This is a hard teaching, who can accept it?' ... From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him" (John 6). We don't know. This is not to say that we should be content and not try to improve these programs and our attitudes, just that God will and is using these programs and the volunteers/workers in them to help people who are really struggling.

There is the no doubt the church needs grace in dealing with homosexuality, just as it needs grace in dealing with people who are afflicted with any sinful tendancy. But there also needs to be a careful effort in making sure we don't condone the behaivor as well, we can't have so much grace we end up saying that it is okay to practice homosexuality.

I like the point that for anything positive to happen in the lifes of gays, sexuality needs room to breathe, to get out in the open. AA is founded on the idea that for anything good to happen for alcoholics, their problems first needs to be let out in the open, to be shared. The same principle needs to exist in helping homosexuals.

It is not the job of the church or any christian to change people. It will never work. God calls people to change and then people choose to change. So, it must only be the job of the church to point people towards the voice of God, to shut up for a minute and let God speak.

Great point. I agree with you and affirm that.

Part of the problem here is our sinful desire to be God. In doing so we have put ourselves in the position as The Judge. We could gain a great deal of ground if we would FOLLOW JESUS. We are NOT called to be the judge. We are the messed-up ones who are saved by grace. http://radicalcall.wordpress.com/2006/11/29/dont-judge/

All good comments. Just to clarify, I'm not condemning Haggard for being a hypocrite; I just think it's sad that--and extremely telling--that he was never able to come forward. I think homosexuality may stem in a lot of cases from a lack of love, and acceptance is really the most healing thing that they can experience. And I just don't think recent events and public discourse are creating a helpful, healing environment.

Thanks. :)

I think "The Church" is terrified of homosexuality because deep down no one believes Christ can conquer it. Sure the bible calls it a sin, but in "selling" christianity, its too hard to convince a homosexual their lifestyle is wrong, so the church's tactic is to act very hostile to these people (who God loves) and keep them away.

I think it is worth noting that when Jesus met the lady at the well, who had been involved in a lot of sexual immorality, his approach was first love, then grace/mercy, and then correction. The order is very important. The love/grace/mercy were not contigent upon her righteousness.

Yes! The church is plagued by inauthenticity and "light and fresh air" shed upon our sexuality is therapeutic. Yet in order for this to happen, we need to learn how to listen. My mentor once said that evenagelicals are awful listeners. How true. So often are we advocating (like I am doing right now and everyone above and below me) when we should be listening. Do we know how to listen to the struggler? Can we ask questions for the sake of putting ourselves in their shoes and loving them better, not to find a window through which we can sneak our agenda (no matter how well-intended)? We as EVANGELicals feel we have a message to speak, and we do; but we speak without listening and this is to our detriment.

Accountability is a word that comes to mind. I don't mean simply the willingness of Christians to feel correct in pointing out each others sins and failures, but accountability in our responsibiltyto ask each other. We've stopped asking brothers and sisters in the church how we're doing because, obviously, we don't want to know. I think this would be a great first step in achieving the sense of community everyone seems to be longing for.

To me, the church communities I've been a part of don't seem to really want to open themselves up to be filled with people who are "really screwed" up period (regardless of what that definition of screwed up is). We don't want to leave room for people who are irresponsible, depressed all the time, gay and riddled with lust issues, or fat/ugly/smelly, badly dressed, mentally disabled, don't speak english well, don't have a car/loads of money.

I think the church does "community" well for the people who fit well into communities. For the rest of us wierdos we often feel like we are on the "outside looking in." The sheer lonliness of being a christian that struggles with homosexuality is overwhelming - and this is only magnified by some barna-worshipping jerk that wants to constantly remind me of how difficult - how impossible it is to change. And for the people out there (Christian/not) who are using Ted Haggard as some example I plead with you to remember that he's a human being! As if anybody was anything like sinless enough to be surprised at Haggard's spiritual "duplicity." Just because someone struggles their whole life with sin doesn't make them a hypocrite, it makes them a human. I don't mean to sound bitter here, but the moment I heard about that whole scandal my first thought was "the only thing that separates me from him is that he got caught."

Jimmy, that was the best post ever. And I am truly sorry if my posts made you feel more alienated. i.e., I'm not sure if I'm one of the Barna-worshipping jerks you're referring to. Even if so, that's one of the best lines I've heard in a while: I ain't got much love for George Barna. He designates Christians who don't really care about their faith as "Christians Who Drink Beer." I found that extremely offensive, being the fan of Newcastle that I am.

Jimmy, God love you. I really appreciated your post.

Personally, my biggest beef with the church and homosexuality is that when I get into a conversation with someone about it, more often than not I quickly find out that they have never had a gay friend in their life. Like Jimmy said, most of the Christians I know are stuck in their communities of people like them.

The responses of many of my straight Christian friends to my gay friends, responses of ignorance, dismissal and judgment, have led me to the place I am today. I can't bring myself to condemn my gay Christian friend. Not even to say that I don't approve (I'm not even sure that I would mean it if I said it). It makes me mad that I even have to use the term "gay Christian friend" - in reality the label "gay" doesn't matter, does it? There is neither Jew nor Greek - why is there gay and straight? Listening to my friend speak about experiences with the church and Christians has brought me to tears on more than one occasion, and every time leaves me entirely speechless. I never saw Jesus hate anyone, yet my friend knows numerous Christians who hate before knowing, who hate based on rumours and assumptions. And that is sickening to me. I want to sincerely love my friend, and to make that my first priority. To me that means setting aside any agenda or conclusions and just being there.

"When we honestly ask ourselves which person in our lives mean the most to us, we often find that it is those who, instead of giving advice, solutions, or cures, have chosen rather to share our pain and touch our wounds with a warm and tender hand. The friend who can be silent with us in a moment of despair or confusion, who can stay with us in an hour of grief and bereavement, who can tolerate not knowing, not curing, not healing and face with us the reality of our powerlessness, that is a friend who cares." - Out of Solitude, Henri Nouwen.

Jessica, thanks for your affirmation. It wasn't anything you said that made me feel the way I did. I appreciate your sensitivity though - and for what it's worth I didn't mean to imply that you are a barna-worshipping jerk.

It's really more like I'm a little dumfounded by the immensity of this issue everywhere I turn and that so few people seem to be emotionally/experientially equipped to help people who struggle with this issue. I had a really good friend that was honestly and lovingly trying to help when he told me "I'm sure you're attracted to women somewhere in there." It wasn't the worst thing anyone ever said, but it wasn't terribly helpful or true. On the other hand, I have two roommates now who once remarked that they "didn't want to live with no queers." Well, I guess the joke's on them huh! You can probably guess who I'm not going to ask to be my "accountability partner." All I'm saying is that since we live in a world of hopelessness and dead-end pragmatism, the community of Jesus should be the place where people can discover that their lives needn't be bounded by such statistics. Imagine if we told every soldier on the beaches of Normandy that they had only a 30% chance of making it home for Christmas 1946 - they probably wouldn't have much of a will to fight would they?

I've spent my whole life dreaming that Jesus really is the one that can make something meaningful and redemptive out of my life story. And my dream church would be one that steadfastly clings to the hope of Christ's power for change, while recognizing and embracing the ugly, embarassing, and redonculuosly difficult reality of the process involved. The thing about Jesus that always stokes my furnace is that he touched lepers (!) Before he could minister to them, he had to touch 'em. So that to me is where we should start as a church. We MUST open our lives to the lepers of our culture (gay, socially akward, poor, unattractive, people of x nationality, whatever...).

Again - I'm sorry I sound like such a soapbox crusader -maybe I should just zip it for now. Anyhow, great topic Jessica. With people like you in the church I'm sure we'll finally start getting it right soon.



PS - I'm partial to La Fin Du Monde myself.

Regarding the above two posts: See, that's what I'm talking about, man. It's those little things that create a hostility to people who are struggling.

I knew someone once who wasn't a lesbian, but she was kind of androgynous, and no matter how hard she tried to get involved at church, she sat alone every single week that she didn't bring a friend with her.

I've also had the experience of hearing friends comment with almost pleasure, or at least a "sucks to be him" attitude, anytime hardship befalls a gay character on TV. I think it just really puts an unfair burden on everyone dealing with anything sexual.

Thanks for the words, Jimmy. I've never had La Fin Du Monde. I may get mocked if I order a French-sounding beer where I live, though -- it's Pabst Blue Ribbon around here.

Who the hell is that Barna guy that was reffered to? And if someone has his address I'll send him a holiday five pack of frothy Guiness, MMM, now that's community,

Big up to Pabst Blue ribbon

Thanks everyone for your insights, they really make me think about stuff. I wanted to craft a great and wise response, but alas, it shall be not so! This is my best shot:

I did find some interesting tidbits while trying to write my take-the-wind-outta-you repsonse. The Bible almost always presents the sin of homosexuality as a product of a deeper sin, namely, refusing to acknowledge God. And, it is almost exclusively presented with a host of other sins, like idolatry and swindling and witchcraft and murder. I think that we need to be asking our homosexual friends, just like any friend seeped in sin, is, "Well, what about God, that huge guy in the sky?" with the emphasis on God, not on sin or even the person. (See Romans 1:18-27) God gave the Isrealites the Law only after many generations of recognizing Him as God.

For those who already know God and have problems with sin, specifically homosexuality: I wish you all had such a great church as mine. I praise God to be so fortuante. While we don't say, "Oh, you're gay? You should come here," I would feel comfortable inviting a close transgender friend and her girlfriend. Our emphasis is on the Lord and His healing power. We definitely believe in the "neither Jew nor Greek" mentality as well as the "be transformed by the renewing of your mind." We believe that mind renewal has to do with the actually believing that God can do all the things that He promised. And He has promised to make us righteous, into a new creation, one for Him, whatever that means, for each of us individually. But it is more about God than about us.

And, please don't take this too harshly, your relationships with your fellow believers are what you make them. If God has called you to that church you don't quite feel comfortable with, maybe you are a catalyst in changing that church. Try not to discount them as unteachable and static. If someone's views bother you, pray for them. It's one of the most loving things you can do for your enemy. To be quite frank, your views probably do the same to the other person. They, if they listen to the Lord, are probably praying for you. You talk of a need of change within our fellowships. That's not going to happen correctly without prayer and faith.

Great article! I just think that we are seeing the media and the church lash out at the hurting. In a state that was so sure that it was going to stop abortion, I pray that one day the church will quit trying to legislate morality. All you saw before the election was pro-life signs everywhere! Yet the bill was thoroughly defeated. You didn't see a lot of pro-abortion signs yet it won! Most people that are for the abortion rights are not proud of their morals. I think that as a nation we are not proud of whom we have become. We need to love people to Christ not lay the law on them.

Sigh.

Where to begin?

For the most part, I enjoyed this article. I just wish more Christians would learn more about the roots of homosexuality, especially when I read comments like "Tina's" above: "The Bible almost always presents the sin of homosexuality as a product of a deeper sin, namely, refusing to acknowledge God."

As someone who struggles with homosexuality, and as someone who's currently in an Exodus ministry, I can tell you that that's false, false, false.

Homosexuality is, quite simply, an unmet emotional need that has been sexualized. It's NOT a refusal to acknowledge God. In fact, homosexuality isn't even about sex.

I was raised in an dysfunctional home (aren't they all?) by parents who tried their damndest to make sure I knew about Christ. At 7, I was sexually abused by an older male cousin (I'm female, by the way). Later, I was abused by a neighbor kid and later, by another female cousin. Add to that unholy mess an emotionally absent, verbally abusive father and what do you get? An emotional wreck. Never feeling comfortable around men, at age 21, I found myself attracted to women. I'd always been attracted to men, so I considered myself bisexual. I fought the attraction for years, untill I found an Exodus ministry and finally began to sort through the mess my life had become.

Throughout my struggle, I've always acknowledge God, and knew, deep down, he didn't make me gay. Thankfully, I never acted on my attractions but I came damn close. I now realize that unmet emotional needs coupled with a distorted view of sex are what led to my same-sex attractions.

One study reported that 85 percent of women who identify as lesbian or bisexual were sexually abused. Incidence of abuse among gay men is high as well, but abuse in itself, obviously, does not mean someone will be gay or lesbian, etc.

I'm rambling now but I wrote all of that to say that in most cases, homosexuality doesn't stem from not acknowledging God, and most gay people would equate that point of view to judgement. Many of my gay friends acknowledge God. Wwhat it all comes down to, ultimately, is a relationship with Jesus. That's the "cure" (I hate that word because it makes it sound like it's a disease) for homosexuality. Not church, not marriage -- Jesus. Untill Christians stop seeing it as some taboo and realize that in God's eyes, the lie they told their wife or the gossiping about a church member is the same carries the same weight as homosexuality, nothing will change.

Exodus ministries get a bad rap because of rumors they use electro-shock therapies, etc, which is also false. Yes, those ministries work. I don't agree with everything Exodus Intnl does politically, but they've definitely been instrumental in my life.

You'll never hear the positive side of this because media outlets rarely cover this. And when they do, stories often smack of cynicism and snark. I say this not only as somene who's struggled but also as a journalist.

Anyway, I'm done ranting...

Let me begin by confessing that I was a bit...what's a good word, uneasy, as I prepared to read this article. As I held my breath through the first and second paragraphs, all the way down to the end (I'm a fast reader, not a record-setting breath holder)...I was struck by what grace and love enables a person to hold such opinions.

My prayer of late has been for God to give me His eyes, His ears and His heart. That my fellow Christians and I will not be shocked by sin, regardless of the social magnitude or stigma that it might carry.

Thank you Jessica, Jimmy and the rest, for hearing His call. Your voices are the ones which will redeem the message of Christ to a lonesome and frustrated world.

Hi everyone, it's Tina again. And my name really is Tina. I would like to address "Redacted Poster." BTW, what's your name?

I'm glad you quoted me in such a way as you did, but I think you misunderstood me when I said "sin of homosexuality." It was late, and I failed to elaborate on what I meant by that.

First of all, you and I used different definitions for the word homosexuality. You wrote that it is an "an unmet emotional need that has been sexualized." Though I would agree with you that many times, this is the root cause of having feelings of attraction for the same sex, I still think it is recognizing and allying oneself with those feelings that cause one to be a "homosexual." So when I wrote "homosexual friends" I meant, very specifically, these are friends that know of their attraction to the same sex and embrace it. Essentially, it becomes a part of their identity.

Secondly - and this is the point that I really should have elaborated on - the "sin of homosexuality" is not having those feelings, it's acting on them. Genesis 19, Leveticus 18, Romans 1, and 1 Corinthians 6, don't say anything about the "feelings" (well, Romans does a little, but that would take another comment to explain); they speak about the action. These Biblical "homosexuals" actively pursued their desires that were not from the Lord. That's what I mean by "sin of homosexuality," and that's also the reason I discussed the denial of God. ANYTIME people willingly sin, whether it is yelling at their children to relieve their anger, gossiping negatively about their aquaintances, habitually smoking or overeating, or giving into homosexual desires, they are actively denying the Lord and His diety.

This convo of redefining words and phrases causes me to think a little more deeply about how we approach the subject semantically. I am blessed to have a pastor (Pastor Rino!) that has taught us how we can speak life or death with our words. As much as I loathe admitting it, James 3 is very, very true, when it compares what comes out of our mouths to a bit and bridle for a horse. What we speak can direct our actions. Let's look at the way we speak about homosexuals - we label anyone with those feelings as one. Sometimes I really really want to have sex (I'm single) or overeat or get drunk - do you then label me as a fornicator or a glutton or a drunkard? No, because I don't actually do those things, nor do I really hold onto those thoughts; I don't want to sin.

I think that, if used improperly, the label we place on ourselves, or in the church's case, other Christians, such as child abuser or homosexual, can two things: it can condemn them in their sin and therefore cause it to be harder to get out of their sin. It puts their eyes on the struggle and not on the Lord. I know I'm walking a fine line when it comes to what I said about defining a homosexual. Yes, someone else can label you as a homosexual, but, if you are following God, you do not have to embrace that label for the rest of your life. Labeling yourself, as well as other people who genuinely want to love and serve the Lord, can cause condemnation and unnecessary struggle. Instead, embrace the label that God has given you: new creation, more than a conqueror, true worshipper, bold as a lion. (Goodness, I sound like a self-help book right now. And I'm getting off topic.) I think my point is that while you once considered yourself a homosexual, that is, actively pursing what God does not want for you, you should no longer - God doesn't. To fit it in with the discussion, I don't believe that the some members of the church feel that way about those other members who struggle with homosexual sin. They still label them homosexual, and to them that equates with sin.

To put it more succinctly, we should be addressing to our churches more than the fact that Christians can struggle with homosexual sin, but how we think about the taboo and how it can be changed.

Redacted Poster, I'm sorry to single you out for this little mini essay. Your comment really made me realize that my comment needed clarification, and for me, it's best to address that directly. I do also understand the emotional complexity of what we are talking about here. It is not as though I am without sin myself. I'm on my own journey. It's just different. Please don't think of me as judgemental, only sleepy and muddled headed. And, I didn't say it before, thank you R.P., as well as Jimmy, Jessica, Sara and everyone else for your opinion. You are all truly a part of the body of Christ. It could not work without you.

Whew, that was long, but great to hammer a few things out. It's late now. Time for bed!

I wanted to share with everyone here a personal story....
I am a Christian and have been for a little over 22 years, give or take a year. I have been married for 26 years and have several children. I had been on a deacon board of a baptist church for 16 years and I was interim pastor there for a year and now I am an elder in the church we have attended for the last two years, I teach Sunday School and occasionally preach, I believe God has gifted me for ministry. I have a Masters in Counseling and work with people infected with HIV.
I also have a secret that about only two people in my life know and this secret has been a tremendous struggle for me for as long as I can remember. I struggle with same sex attactions but I cannot ever bring it into the light because the church, most any evangelical church cannot deal with my struggle and will not allow me to be involved in ministry at any level if I were to open up. I believe, that we as evangelicals do not understand grace, forgiveness or for that matter sin. We catagorize some sin as worse than others, we minimize people struggling with the "big sins" and overlook the smaller sins, like gossip, which if the truth be known has destroyed many more people and churches than someone struggling with homosexuality.
My passion, my desire is to see the church become a place where people who struggle, who sometimes falls, with whatever sin, can know that they are in a loving community that will help them back up onto the path and to support them.
That church does not exist, and because of that people that struggle with alcohol, drugs, sexual issues, and other "biggies" tend to hid in the shadows always fearing exposure.
I struggle daily....I live two lives....sometimes the struggle overwhelmes me, I cry, I plead, I get angry, I am confused, but more than that I am extremely lonely and alone in this struggle.
Something in the church needs to change....I don't know if or when that will ever happen.

I've been thinking about this article a lot, and the more I think about things the more I realize that I will never come to a conclusion that I'm satisfied with.

I realized some years ago that while I may meet many different facets of God, I can't seem to comprehend more than one at a time. I have seen God the awesome, God the terrible, God the merciful, God the loving, God the just and God the righteous, but I have a hard time wrapping my mind around God the awesome and accessible, or God the mighty and humble.

The more I try to know, the less I know. For example, how do I venture to comprehend all the genetics behind sexual orientation? How can I reconcile God the healer with the fact that a friend of mine desperately wanted to go straight and ended up with depression?

As I learn new things and hear new life stories, I can stand behind fewer and fewer of my once easy opinions. As I continue to broaden my understanding, however, I also have been strengthening my faith. I've found my faith to thrive in the grey areas, because God is so much bigger when I am unable to categorize him. I get him even less, but I trust him even more.

I read your thoughts, and your arguments, and I'm no closer. To be honest, I'm okay with that. It's not very fun to always know the answer. In the end I remember the simple truth: God is love.

Marc, your honesty was so beautiful to me.

Hiya fellas,

Some thoughts.

Marc:

I can appreciate your feeling that no one else in the world could appreciate your feeling. I would, however, encourage you to test your hypothesis. I've served on the staff of 2 different youth ministries at 2 different Bible-belt midwestern churches. I've shared my struggle with SGA with the pastoral staff of both churches and am happy to tell you that in neither case was I chased out of town on a rail. In fact, I've been blown away by the fact that no one I've told (and I've shared with hundreds - even in public situations) has been a jerk to me. I remember well the first time I shared with a close friend. The most incredible thing happened: nothing. Even though we like to portray the church as a pack of slack-eyed drooling hatebots I have to say that with it's imperfect record, it's the only place I have ever seen such a profound mingling of acceptance, encouragement, love, forgiveness, and grace. This doesn't mean I wear my struggle on my sleeve. Generally I can predict well if sharing with a certain person would not be benficial for either of us. In thoses cases I refrain. Either way, trying to live in this hell alone is not going to help for sure.

To Sara, I must say that while I love your grace and humility, I really do believe that the Lord clearly communicated His opinion of homosexuality in the OT/NT. It's pretty hard to get around those passages logically and responsibly without having to come to the conclusion that the Lord opposes homosexual sex. If that were not the case, none of us would really be struggling. I'm ok with that though cause I know that every page of the Bible is written to give me a chance to have lasting and real joy. Freedom means being able to choose between a number of options. Bondage means being forced against your will to choose one or the other. Homosexuality does not present itself as freedom.

Depression and homosexuality are two seperate issues, and I have experience with both. Depression is sort of a family heirloom if you will. Depression happens when you fill your head with all kinds of rediculous lies: I'm not a real man. I'll never have a family. God hates me. I am a sinner who uniquely deserves to be punted by God...

There's no such thing as "a" real man. I already have a "family" - and ask Marc if it's impossible to have a family . God gave His son so that I could experience His love. Yes, I am a sinner and I deserve to be punted - and punted hard - but SO IS EVERYONE ELSE. Depression doesn't mean that everything you believe is wrong though. For instance "Beating my child is wrong + God hates me for beating my child." God doesn't hate you. But you bet your ass that beating your child is wrong. Anyways, gotta go - New Years party to attend.

XOXO

Ahhh!

I was in a rush out the door. Sara I hope you don't read the above post as an attack on you! I think you rock!

My names Jed and I'm a sinner, I'm also working as a youth pastor, I am never going to get it all right all the time, but I will not stop trying. To marc, live "one" life brother one life devoted to serving our Lord.
People seem to forget that the God we serve is bigger than my sin, grace is an all suficient grace, I dont have permission to sin but I have forgiveness. Christians should never forget that. I didnt struggle with homosexual sin but it was only the renewing of my mind by the spirit of God that led me out of sexual sin. It is also an understanding and a practice of the discipline of chastity that maintains a healthy sexuality.
It seems to me that the "church" has gotten it wrong. How can we be up in arms about homosexual sin ( I am not approving it ) yet be invisible on issues of heterosexual sin, whats going on?!

thank you for your kind responses, and honestly your love. Although I don't know any of you really I feel understood here.
To Jimmy.....thank you for your great concern, thank you that you have shown me that there are churches that love and help rather than judge and shun. Unfortunately, the churches I have know are much more into judgement than love, grace and help. I cannot reveal the struggle, it will destroy my life.
Sara.....thank you for the beautiful comments. In my journey I have seen God in many of the same ways you have...a God who, even with what He has revealed about Himself in Scripture, is beyond anything we can truly comprehend. I, like you, do not have all the answers and the longer I am a Christian the more I realize I have less of the answers than I thought. I also have discovered that I am a lot more sinful than I realized but Gods grace is much bigger than I can ever grasp. Sometimes when I sit and think about how such a Holy, and Righteous God can love such a weak, feeble, sinful man and I am brought to tears thinking of His immense love. His Love is what keeps me from plunging headlong into a sinful lifestyle
Finally to Jed, your words my brother are a reminder to me of the all sufficient work of the cross of Christ. They were a reminder to me that His death, His resurrection, have forever removed my sin and I stand before God clothed in the righteousness of Christ. His grace, His love, will be with me forever. This reminder helps me to realize that even though God is aware of all my sin, past, present and future He choose to give me eternal life and to pick me up whenever I fall. Again that love is my motivation to do right, even if I have been given the freedom to choose.
I stuggle, sometiimes to the pont of giving in, giving up. It is only by His grace that I will stand.
Peace,
mark

I am so honored to have read this article along with your comments. Sometimes I forget that there are fellow xians who think this way.

Marc, fight the good fight, Rage on brother! Jed